cheers stants for that , getting keys re-coded sounds a nightmare that's opened up another can of worms phoned Subaru and they say replace the alarm ecu and keypad and wont take it out so they can go f**k themselves absolutely useless as I thought they would be on previous experience best people to ask is the owners hence im on here haha just thought maybe someone had already had this problem and done a removal or by pass the system to get the car going , there`s just so many different answers to these sigma alarm problems , car battery flat , key fob battery flat , lock the door/ unlock key in ignition turn on ten times etc to reprogram the key been quoted silly money to take out alarm and fit new 1 so that's not going to happen thanks again for the reply`s guys all info most helpful