Petrol following years of diesel

[scrotty]

Hi folks

 

I'm a new member and I'l be honest I always join owners clubs when I'm looking to buy a car as I really value to knowledge of existing owners.

I'm looking at an outback as a possible replacement for my 2015 mitsubishi outlander gx3 diesel. The mitsubishi has served me well as a family car on many a camping trip but my kids are older now and while we have similar needs as a family i'm trying to get as much drivers car as I can without losing too much practicallity.

 

My question is essentially petrol vs diesel? I'm interested in petrol as I feel this is my last chance to own one but I'm nervous about the CVT gearbox. Diesel is an option but it limits the age of the car I buy.

 

I do around 10k per year so other than differences between the cars will choosing a petrol be a huge cost on fuel or are there any other considerations I need to consider? I get the outback is smaller and I lose two seats but I'm thinking more of running costs.

I couldn't find a similar topic through the search so if it's already been considered feel free to point me towards the thread.

 

Thanks

[AndyLevorg]

I have just changed from a diesel Insignia tourer to a petrol Levorg with CVT.

The Insignia averaged around 45 mpg on diesel. I'm averaging around 36 or 37 with the petrol Levorg for the same type of driving (Mixed town and country). I can get over 40 on a long journey. I'm quite happy with that as it is petrol and permanent four wheel drive.

 

I used to have an Audi A6 with a DGT gearbox and find the CVT is smoother than that once you get used to it. It does seem to rev high overtaking and on steep inclines. But as that is only about 5% of the time in the 95% of normal driving the car is extremely smooth and quiet. Hope this helps.

 

Andy

[Justin Time]

16 hours ago, scrotty said:

 

 

I I get the outback is smaller and I lose two seats but I'm thinking more of running costs.

I'm not sure why you think the Outback is smaller: 

Boots space for the OB (seats down) is 1848 litres, while the Mitsi Outlander is only 1608 litres (but it does have 2 extra 'seats').

Length OB = 4820 mm  Outlander = 4695

Wheel base OB = 2745  Outlander = 2670

Width OB = 1840 mm Outlander = 1810 mm

The Outlander does have more height 75 mm extra, BUT the OB's ground clearance is 200 mm, while the Mitsie's is 190 mm

The mpg will be a big difference.  I'm coming from a Skoda Yeti diesel 4x4 manually transmission which averaged around 53 mpg, while the OB (2.5 SE Premium Gen5) only does 35.7 mpg, and that's according to the onboard computer which might 'flatter' the actual mpg.  To be fair, that's carrying a fullsize alloy spare wheel and driving with the sidelights on (so alternator constantly working) and along mainly twisty A and B rural roads with lots of hills - v little motorway or dual carriageway stuff and I never use the stop-start.

The OB is my first 'automatic' and I really like the CVT overall. Subaru now stake their reputation on the CVT in most of their new cars worldwide. Subaru CVTs in the UK are 'sealed for life' - so none servicable.  If they ever went wrong over here, with anything less than 150,000 miles plus (?), then Subaru would have a lot of explain to do or would have to show you'd seriously misused the transmission, or else their reputation would be tatters.

I think the OB is a great car and the Gen5 are currently at a bit of a discount (although this is an expensive time to buy any new or used car) as there's a new OB Gen6 out since July.

To be honest, the OB is never going to be a 'thrifty' car to own, so I would never have used it for my daily commuting in the past due to its size and running costs, but that's not what I want it for now.  I'm looking for reliability, safety, mild off-road ability, load carrying ability - car camping, etc. Oh and yeah, Subaru are different (and not a BMW, Merc or Audi like everyone else seems to drive 🙂 ). 

Good luck with your decision making.

I had looked at the Mitsubishi Shogun Sport as another alternative, but with Mitsubishi leaving the UK and Europe, I ditched that idea, even though they've promised to provide parts for the next 10 yrs to customers.  Also considered were the Subaru Forester - great looking car with good off-road ability - but the new ones in the UK are all hybrids.  The Levorg looks great too, but I needed more ground clearance.  Kia/ Hyundai etc. sadly have made their new 4x4s all really super soft-roaders, so ticked off my list. Land Rover est, all over priced, for me, and seem to be bottom of all the reliability tables worldwide.  Pick-ups and SSangyong? All have 4x4 systems (4H)  that can't be used on a dry, hard, tarmac surface (except the Mitsi L200 with SuperSelect 2, but see above re Mitsi UK?Europe) - so all ticked off the list too. 

Just left the..... OB 🙂

[scrotty]

Thanks for your answers so far they really are appreciated.

 

Andy: Yes it does help thank you. A real world mpg is great. I'll be honest it's better than I expected Subaru have a reputation for being a bit heavy at the pumps.

 

Justin: I'll be honest my metric of size comes from nothing other than parking the cars next to each other. When side by side its hard to see the outback as anythig other than smaller. Your thoughts on cvt are interesting as it would also be my first automatic. I'll be honest the outlander is a very hard car to replace as a family car it just does everything. I'm interested in retaining most of what it does well and adding a little more driver appeal and just owning an interesting car. Also the extra 75mm hight is welcome inside the cabin but rules out a roof box as it becomes a pain to use which is another advantage to the subaru.

 

Basically in this day and age can a N/A petrol engine as big as 2.5 really be an alternative to a modern diesel?

[Justin Time]

10 hours ago, scrotty said:

Basically in this day and age can a N/A petrol engine as big as 2.5 really be an alternative to a modern diesel?

I really get what you're saying.  I loved my 2.0 Yeti diesel - the sound it made, the sense of torque and its 'gruntiness' ( 😉 ).

What I'm not missing however, are worries about the DPF and EGR valve failures, which I knew would be a issue despite my regular use of the more expensive diesel options at the pumps.  I guess I could add to the list the absence of a turbo to go wrong and, in the case of Skoda 4x4s, the newer Haldex drive systems which were getting a reputation for built in obsolescence (maybe not an issue with the Mitsie). Have a look at Ssangyong - Korando or Rexton?  Despite what I've said above re the Rexton's 4x4 system, you do get  a lot of extra kit; they do diesels too; and there's a 7 year warranty (Subaru have just reduced theirs to 3 years).  Ssangyong do have a issue with the main company going bust in Asia though, so something to think about.

[AndyLevorg]

1 hour ago, Justin Time said:

I really get what you're saying.  I loved my 2.0 Yeti diesel - the sound it made, the sense of torque and its 'gruntiness' ( 😉 ).

What I'm not missing however, are worries about the DPF and EGR valve failures, which I knew would be a issue despite my regular use of the more expensive diesel options at the pumps.  I guess I could add to the list the absence of a turbo to go wrong and, in the case of Skoda 4x4s, the newer Haldex drive systems which were getting a reputation for built in obsolescence (maybe not an issue with the Mitsie). Have a look at Ssangyong - Korando or Rexton?  Despite what I've said above re the Rexton's 4x4 system, you do get  a lot of extra kit; they do diesels too; and there's a 7 year warranty (Subaru have just reduced theirs to 3 years).  Ssangyong do have a issue with the main company going bust in Asia though, so something to think about.

DPF/EGR worries and past problems made me change to petrol as well. I know loads of people who have had issues including myself and my son.

[scrotty]

Again thanks to you both. 

 

Mitsubishi pulling out of the UK market has definitely made me consider other options I think it will hurt the values over the next year as the market settles. 

 

Just out of interest does the cvt make any material difference to towing? There's a small chance I'll be considering a caravan next year. I'm sure it can cope just fine and it wouldn't be a deal breaker anyway I'm just wondering if it makes much difference? 

 

[Justin Time]

9 hours ago, scrotty said:

Again thanks to you both. 

 

Mitsubishi pulling out of the UK market has definitely made me consider other options I think it will hurt the values over the next year as the market settles. 

 

Just out of interest does the cvt make any material difference to towing? There's a small chance I'll be considering a caravan next year. I'm sure it can cope just fine and it wouldn't be a deal breaker anyway I'm just wondering if it makes much difference? 

 

Probably the best source of recent OB towing info/experience is to be found on the subaruoutback.org forum, like this thread https://www.subaruoutback.org/threads/2020-towing-capacity.513581/page-20#post-6149831 

[scrotty]

Hi folks

Just following up because I know how annoying it is when there's no outcome to a thread. As it stands I won't be changing car. Current prices rule out a change at this time until the trade-in values catch up. I'm still interested but I'll admit I'm still worried about the CVT. There more I read the more complicated it seems. Can anyone explain what a cvt is better at vs a normal auto? I understood it was about keeping the engine in the optimal rev range but the gear like steps seem to rule that out.

Anyway maybe a better question is are all season tyres worth the money?????

[Justin Time]

Srotty., I can't answer your q re why a cvt is any better (or worse) than other forms of auto gear box. I just love mine (but am also glad its got a 100,000 mile warranty attached!).

But  tyres, now then!  Cheekily changing your q a bit, I've been using winter tyres (not all season) for over 20 years now, ever since i moved to the NE of England (God's own country) and had a few early commuting scary moments in my old ford escort, on long drives home in the dark and snow/ice.  Now I know better, and I can't understand why anyone who lives north of Birmingham, and away from the milder coast, doesn't change from their usual summer tyres to winter tyres (or maybe all-season), November to April-ish, especially if they drive their kids/family around and care about their well-being.

Best current advice is from: winter tyres  and  All Season tyres 

It's a no-brainer, especially if you live in a rural spot.

Down-sides?  If you have one set of wheels and you have the tyres changed twice a year (winters on then off) there's a cost, and you need somewhere to store them, unless you use a 'tyre-hotel' but that costs too.

If you have two sets of wheels (say alloys for summer and steelies for winter), there's the cost of the extra set of wheels, and TPMS valves, but you can switch the wheels at your own convenience at home, at no cost, until the tyres wear out. Again, you need space to store them at home.

Yes, there's also a cost of investing in a second set of tyres, but then the other set aren't wearing out when they're 'resting'.

People often mistake having a 4x4 with better winter traction - they're wrong if they have summer tyres on.  A 2x4 with winters on is better than a 4x4 with summers on.  If you've no, or little tyre traction then it doesn't matter if you've 4x4, 6x6....etc - you ain't going anywhere (safely).

 

[scrotty]

Thanks Justin I'll respond for no other reason than in case anyone is interested. I appreciate a thread about not buying a car isn't what people come here for.

Anyway, I'm sure you all appreciate prices are all over the place right now and as it stands I'm scuppered wth high Subaru prices and no main dealer within 30 miles.

Hanging onto the mitsubishi for now, it just works! Like I said in my first post it's hard to replace but I'm drawn to an outback.

 

With the tyre question I landed at this position. My Xtrail, Captiva and Outlander have all been awesome on OEM tyres in the snow (maybe two weeks per year max). I guess an all season tyre will be a little better and I don't care about the rest of year compromise unless its a significant amount of noise.

[Mr B]

Buy all season tyres wisely, they vary massively in capability . asking a tyre be good in all conditions is asking for best designs, best materials, best testing and user feedback when you making selection choices .
Modern diesels tend write off any mpg savings eventually due to dpf/egr/injection system repairs, other issue is diesel mpg not that amazing as dpf is a brick wall between next level mpg figures . collecting soot and then burning fuel in exhaust to spit it out on highway at cost of fuel consumption, reduced oil life, reduced reliability, reduced vehicle lifespan is not great besides for emptying money from owners pockets one way or the other.
CVT another area of potential high expense .
If you want true low running costs go back 15-20 years when vehicles made massively better and didn't fill skips with emission equipment parts that kill your bank balance .