Is it worth welding

[22 mpg]

Hi. New member in need of a little help please.

 

I needed a new exhaust so I bought one from my local car spares place and a small car lifter to aid access.

 

 

I then noticed a little rust on the inner sill. It goes from the rear of the jacking point to just behind the drivers door.

 

 

 

 

Just wondering if it is worth repairing? and is it safe to drive?

 

It's a 2003 legacy estate 2.5 gx auto with 80k on the clock.

I haven't fitted the exhaust yet as it may not be worth it. :(

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

 

 

[Jay762]

Wotcha and welcome - the photos may be deceptive but it looks to me like you will need a bit of plate as well as some welding rods - is it worth it - up to you what condition is the rest of the car in if it is all solid with good running gear then why not get it sorted??

[22 mpg]

The rest of the car is solid enough. MOT till August 2015. If it was just a bit of plating I would do it, problem is there is a plate inside the box section with big holes stamped in it which is also rotten where it attaches to the sill. Even the jacking point is none existent.

[stants]

Have aword with a local body shop, get some quotes and mull it over, it seems like a lot of timworm for a 11 year old car, have the drain holes in the sills been blocked causing a build up of water rotting it from the inside out ?

[22 mpg]

Didn't check the drain holes, but it would make sense. I got rid of my landrover cos I was fed up of welding it for every mot, and with the scooby's 10 year anti corosion warranty I figured it should be good for a while yet.

[stants]

Suppose it depends on where it's spent nost of its life, how long have you owned the car ?

For that amount of rust it looks like it's taken hold a long time ago, can't beleive the m.o.t didn't flag up at least an advisory

[22 mpg]

I've had it about 3 years. I think it belonged to a building firm, it had a private plate (changed before I bought it) and 56k on the clock. The car has been well undersealed so you can't see much, especially if it's from the inside out. It had an excellent service history, cam/timing belt changed at 6 years, subaru service history etc. I would do the work myself if I could get enough ground clearence and somewhere to do it.

[Mr B]

is unusual for subarus of that era to rust heavily, possibly previous use such as mucky building sites or salt water environment has played some role in it.

Looks mainly the inner sill but do check how solid it is where joins into inner arch panel & where feed off towards trailing links & subfame mount areas.

I personally would give whole vehicle good inspection for rust & if nothing much else found then doing just this area yourself would be cheap & could give good 2-3 years before further work required.

Not much you can do inside the sills easily & normal procedure is good effort on outer panels along with good sealing & waxing inner sills to help slow down corrosion.

after welding I normally spray on zinc primer followed by black PU40 adhesive applied as a seam sealer & filler to tidy the area up & give very long lasting protection, once that dry a coat of underseal as normal.

Points above on drainage are very valid & also when waxing sills don't go to heavy on application as tends sag into pools blocking drain routes & holes.

You should be able make some wood block stepped ramps easy enough to lift vehicle, if need wheel off a decent trolley jack & axle stands would be needed to get suitable & safe lift.

No idea how last MOT missed the corrosion !

[22 mpg]

I'll probably go with Stants advice and get some quotes first, there's only so much you can do on your drive in winter lying on your back.

[22 mpg]

My quotes came in at around £600 to £700, If you add in the £500 for the exhaust which I bought (but have not fitted yet) the car is not worth much more. It was suggested that if I could weld I could do it myself. Having spent all weekend cutting and welding it is almost completed and looking ok.

The question is how structural are the sills? I am happy that they are not going to fall off but not so sure if my welding is strong enough to take the weight of a major part of the structure.

 

Cheers or reading.

[22 mpg]

is unusual for subarus of that era to rust heavily, possibly previous use such as mucky building sites or salt water environment has played some role in it.

Looks mainly the inner sill but do check how solid it is where joins into inner arch panel & where feed off towards trailing links & subfame mount areas.

I personally would give whole vehicle good inspection for rust & if nothing much else found then doing just this area yourself would be cheap & could give good 2-3 years before further work required.

Not much you can do inside the sills easily & normal procedure is good effort on outer panels along with good sealing & waxing inner sills to help slow down corrosion.

after welding I normally spray on zinc primer followed by black PU40 adhesive applied as a seam sealer & filler to tidy the area up & give very long lasting protection, once that dry a coat of underseal as normal.

Points above on drainage are very valid & also when waxing sills don't go to heavy on application as tends sag into pools blocking drain routes & holes.

You should be able make some wood block stepped ramps easy enough to lift vehicle, if need wheel off a decent trolley jack & axle stands would be needed to get suitable & safe lift.

No idea how last MOT missed the corrosion !

 

 

Thanks for the tip re the stepped wooden blocks. It took 11 14 inch long (35 ish cm for you youngsters) x 3 inch thick blocks and a new pair of underpants when I nearly drove off a 3 block stack. There's not much fine control in the auto box.

[Mr B]

Thanks for the tip re the stepped wooden blocks. It took 11 14 inch long (35 ish cm for you youngsters) x 3 inch thick blocks and a new pair of underpants when I nearly drove off a 3 block stack. There's not much fine control in the auto box.

lol :-D indeed auto is not good at that.

On your question of sill strength, they are indeed quite a main part of body structure. If your welding is half decent & internal structure not too heavily corroded then they probably still suitably rigid enough.

I'm not a fan of rust nor spending much money on repairs of corrosion.

As you done it yourself it was a cost effective option, just keep an eye on it & give inspection for corrosion annually before MOTs & see how it goes, you may find rot spreads quickly (18 months/2 yrs) aound joins of new patches or spreads out to suspension mounting areas on the rear. If corrosion progress is very slow you may see 4/5 yrs before major issue again.

Main thing is keep cars running costs/options in line with this & not heavily invest in it in other areas.

[stants]

Waxoil it to death while you've cleaned and prepped it all and have easy access. Every little helps as they say

[Mr B]

Don't inject too much waxoil into sills as it tends cause water trap areas & block water drainage. also it is a PITA to weld again in future when they over full of oil. sensible misting with decent waxoil gun is recommended though. external application around suspension trailing link area & subframe & Mount area is recommended too.

[22 mpg]

Lots of good advice to digest. I decided to cut a section from the outer sill to gain access to the inner sill. 

 

This is not my car. I just pinched the picture from a website as an example.

 

See profile pic as it won't let me put it here.

 

 

The outer sill was fine so i cut along the back where the rust was and where it joins the floor pan (I'm not a mechanic so excuse if the terminology is incorrect). I then cut across the top as in the above pic and down the sides to remove that section. The inner sill looked remarkably similar to the picture. I drilled out the spot welds on the bottom lip of the sill and removed all the remnants of the old inner sill and floor pan. I treated all the rust with a good dose of rust remover and welded a new piece to the inner sill down to where it should have been. After spraying the inner sill with a few coats of zinc primer I welded the outer sill back on and redid the spot welds to the new metal. I'm now in the process of plating over the floor pan before seem welding it along the bottom of the outer sill and spraying more zinc primer and waxoil.

 

Regarding waxoil inside the sills. I don't mind waxoil where I can remove it to complete any future repairs but it got a bit tiresome stopping every 5 minutes to put the fires out when welding my old landrover.

 

Now I have typed all this I may have made a complete tit of myself in assuming the piece with the big holes stamped in are actualy the inner sill. I did notice another box section at the back of this that was fine, so I may have done all this for nothing.

 

Thanks again.

[22 mpg]

The answer is absabloodylutely. Took her for a spin up the motorway and she's as good as new. Even the new exhaust sounds good. it's only a cheap pattern part but it gives off that sound that only a scooby makes and at a volume us oldies appreciate.

[stants]

Whoop great news mate glad everything was worth the effort and put a smile back on your face [emoji106]

[22 mpg]

It did for a while but then I heard an old familiar noise that started all this in the first place. Once the car gets fully warmed up say 10 miles I get this loud clanging noise which appears to come from the passenger footwell. I can only discribe it as sounding like a cow bell, now i'm sure I haven't run over a cow recently so don't know how it's got there. On top of that I have a new noise that sounds like someone is tapping under the passenger footwell with a rubber mallet about 5 times a second, I've had a look and there no one there. The cow bell noise is most noticable over 60 mph under engine braking and the knocking under gentle acceleration at around the same speed.

 

This is my cowbell.

Voice 002.wav

 

Please tell me someone has had this before. I've checked all the heat shields and fitted the new exhaust.

[stants]

I hate to say it but sounds a bit like a big end problem, does it do it at any other time ?

[22 mpg]

It seems to happen at speeds from around 40 to 70 mph, Mostly going down hill under engine braking and tends to stop when I use the brakes. It will also do it going up hill but you have to be doing about 70 and again only under engine braking. There's a little voice in the back of my head that keeps saying UJ on propshaft or transfer box as I also get a bit of a recuring bump but at very low speeds, as if there is something stuck to my tyre. That added to the fact that it sounds remarkably similar to when my propshaft fell off the diff on my old cortina and bounced off the road. Ah the old cortina, those were the days.

[Rick 2014]

Where abouts are you I think it can be saved

[Mr B]

It did for a while but then I heard an old familiar noise that started all this in the first place. Once the car gets fully warmed up say 10 miles I get this loud clanging noise which appears to come from the passenger footwell. I can only discribe it as sounding like a cow bell, now i'm sure I haven't run over a cow recently so don't know how it's got there. On top of that I have a new noise that sounds like someone is tapping under the passenger footwell with a rubber mallet about 5 times a second, I've had a look and there no one there. The cow bell noise is most noticable over 60 mph under engine braking and the knocking under gentle acceleration at around the same speed.

 

This is my cowbell.

Voice 002.wav

 

Please tell me someone has had this before. I've checked all the heat shields and fitted the new exhaust.

Sounds like something loose, worn/play,

I would check prop & all gearbox mounts & rear engine support mounts.

[22 mpg]

I'll have to get it up on the ramps again at weekend if the weather holds out.

[22 mpg]

just had a quick tug on the inner cv joints since I can reach them from above and there seems to be quite a bit of up and down play on both front axles.

Looks like that might be my starting point.