Bidi Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 I do not currently own a Subaru but I am about to buy one ( gentleman's agreement between good friends with a handshake ) but was wanting advice on the ballpark value . Personally it seems like a good deal , I can view the car and have . It is a M reg body chassis 60k miles done with a 2008 2.5 WRX STI engine . All other components have been upgraded for track days but is road legal . I even know the other people that used to rent out tracks for weekends for 20 friends and some expensive toys that this car was built by . The only issues is bodywork damage from a scorned ex of his . I have access to a very good mechanic with his own garage and we estimate cost for body work will be max £1000-1100. He also says he has the Dyno results for just below 400bhp . Not seen but as said a good friend . What would a general ball park value be ??. If needed I can get more info on the brakes , fly wheel , gearbox , clutch . As said everything needed to be has been upgraded even stupidly lightweight wheels . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 pushing a standard 2.5 to 400 it wont last long at all unless its been forged so sounds optimistic, has it had any engine work done? how sure are you the dyno is accurate and it's the correct one for the car? It wouldn't be the first time i've seen a photoshop dyno chart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bidi Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 The friend in question I trust racing and rally has been his life and known him 15 years plus . The engine is 2008 he had the Dyno done and was pushing upto 400 bhp . Not sure what he has done but he says the engine is like brand new and will need running in ? . Not sure if getting engine forged would mean running in the engine again , I'm not an expert but after asking brother in law and his positive feed back and reasurance it didn't look like a too good to be true thing just a friend really down on his luck . I could give the story but it's tragic a couple of phsyco ex's . And he is skint and is desperate for money to pay off debt and bills . Even if I get help knowing what questions I should be asking . I already have the forged engine one wrote down 370+ bad unless forged , but also something about 1.3 bar boost pressure . If there is anything else I should check and ask him it would be appreciated. And also if it is as he claims the ball park value . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bidi Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 Also he has agreed to let me have it in my friends ( runs his own car mechanics garage and also builds his own custom cars ) check it all over before he takes payment . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 If it needs running in then its a new engine build, need to find out exactly what spec has gone in it. Also if its been rebuild the old figure is irrelevant, it may well have changed. TBH you need to find out exactly what it is, what engine is in it, what spec the build was, etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savage bulldogs Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 You could pick up a 2nd hand 2.5 sti engine for about £1.2k , so as tidgy said spec of the build would affect the price . As the 2.5 ltr engine is standard guise are more prone to headgasket and ringland failure, so if its just had new headgaskets or a standard spec build It's not likely to add a great deal of value. Although its sounds like cosmetic paint damage Being a m reg (95 chassis) rust is another thing to look out for . Inner rear arches and suspension turrets tend to rust from the inside out (so can look ok from the outside) inner sills and crossmember beneath raditor are another place they tend to go . If these areas are rot free it's still a bit difficult to value due to being used as a track car ,As resale values can be limited due to the parts missing or modified for track use . The type of gc8 Shell can also add /loose value ie jdm sti compared to a uk turbo . Then there's the other mods , at 330hp most gc8 5 speeds are on the limit ,so drive train ,brake and suspension mods can all add value (if quality parts are used) . I've seen gc8 "track ready cars " up for as little as £2.5k but they're mainly stripped out standard cars but well built/ modified track cars up for £10k . So it's very difficult for anyone to say how much it's worth ,without knowing the engine and car spec . Tbh i personally couldn't tell you what any track car is realistically worth and only be able to compare it to a modified road car of the same model . Think tidgys modified type r with a 2.5ltr forged closed deck probably set him back over £25k , but doubt he got much more than half that back when selling it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bidi Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) Thank you for all the advice will write up a list of things to ask before I next speak to him , also ask for a list all parts changed and work undergone . And also make sure the mechanic I send it to knows exactly what the owner has claimed . As before I pay I want a proper mechanic to make sure everything is as it should be . Edited August 28, 2018 by Bidi To add something I forgot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bidi Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 Fully forged from scooby clinic with receipt . It was built from the specs of Andy Forrest's scooby . Does this mean someone can give me a price now ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bidi Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 Rust free and it's JDM not UK turbo . One owner since import . Racing seat for driver but fully functional interior in brand new condition . Fully adjustable coil overs , front and rear strut brace . As said earlier about everything is altered in some way light weight bonnet and boot , ally wishbones . He said it has been made as lightweight as possible without compromising on the interior ( as said it s track ready but capable of daily driving ) . Oh and not yet been used on the track since all the work it has done under 500 miles so it is still on the breaking in setting limited to 4k rpm . And all the mods mentioned for 330bhp upwards have been done to the spec of Andy Forrest's scooby . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Andy forrest is running a 6 pot engine, so sounds like he spinning a story. Clinic also wouldn;t be building it to someone else specs, they have considerably more experience then even andy forrest, they have 20 years experience of their own 😉 Is it the current engine that was built by scoobyclinic? when was it built? Whats on the spec sheet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judd Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 My son had a well modified 2 litre type R running around 330hp. The biggest issue was gearbox, the standard box isn't up to coping with that sort of power if hard driven, he ripped two gearboxes to shreds under full power in either second or third. I'm far from an expert in these things, but don't just be looking at the engine, the drivetrain especially the gearbox has to be capable of handling that type of power too, remember in a normal car the wheels will spin if too much power is applied suddenly, with a Scooby that wheelspin safety valve isn't there so the next weakest link in the chain is what breaks, and you have the extra initial torque of those 500cc's trying to get loose. Not trying to piddle on your parade, just i've seen how much these rebuilds (and the engine work) cost the lad each time, best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savage bulldogs Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 As mentioned earlier the classic drivetrain isn't gonna last long at over 330hp . cheapest upgrade path is a ty54 hawk 5 speed, good for high 300's ish (about £400 in parts ) 6 speed is the usual route ,good for over 600 hp (about £1.5k in parts ) As for engine, if its had a recent rebuild by clinic the receipt should detail whats been done and at what cost .but if the deck type is open or the pistons haven't been changed ,i wouldn't push it past mid 300hp tbh (as it's pretty much standard spec) The money spent doesn't always add the same to value ,hence why I mentioned tidgy's highly modded type r . As although it was a lovely spec'd car ,unfortunately you're normally lucky if you get back half the money you put into a "modded" motor . Think the general "jist" that we're all trying to put across ,isn't that your friend is trying to pull the wool .just that we wouldn't want to advise someone to buy a modded scoob ,without knowing its spec or warning them of possible costly issues that could arise shortly after getting the engine running over 330hp . I haven't bought a gc8 for about 7 yrs , as I've been busy with the 1 ive got lol . But clean mildly modded jdm wrx's seem to be for sale at £2.5k to £3k . Clean jdm sti's from £3k to £5k . What model yours is or what mildly modded ones are actually selling for , im afraid i don't know. Ball park without knowing its full model ,spec and a bit of cosmetic damage but bearing in mind it might need..... a mapable ecu ,mapping and drivetrain upgrade work ,shortly after purchase Somewhere between £2.5k and £4k ?maybe a bit more if it's had a ecu change ,drivetrain upgrade and decent spec build . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 On 8/28/2018 at 8:24 PM, savage bulldogs said: Think tidgys modified type r with a 2.5ltr forged closed deck probably set him back over £25k , but doubt he got much more than half that back when selling it. I can't really give a figure because it was a bit of a mish mash deal, 2 cars for 1 and cash. But roughly 15k, I consider that a pretty good deal as i agree totally, you never get your money back on mods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Juddian said: My son had a well modified 2 litre type R running around 330hp. The biggest issue was gearbox, the standard box isn't up to coping with that sort of power if hard driven, he ripped two gearboxes to shreds under full power in either second or third. I swapped mine out for a 6 speed hahaha, 2.5 6 speed in a type r at 400bhp and 465ftlb was rapid haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bidi Posted August 31, 2018 Author Share Posted August 31, 2018 Savage bulldog . This car has had drivetrain , ECU , suspension , bracks , strut braces , wishbones , bonnet lightweight , boot lightweight , alloy wheels are the lightest ones available , he said something about having a upgraded radiator and cooling system done . Interior is in brand-new condition but driver has racing seat installed I think he said it has stupid amount of sensors that all feed into a display and also record readings for analysing the cars performance on a track . Basically the owner and a group of his friends including my brother in-law and a few extremely rich people at least twice a year ship 20 cars on a container ship to race tracks around the world that they rent out privately for at least 3 days at a time . They met Andy forrest at some race event and he advised my friend about building a 400bhp scooby that Forrest owned personally himself at the time . My friend did all the work needed to run a 2.5l WRX STI at 400bhp in the 1995 bodywork then got scooby clinic to forge the engine ( presume after reading this thread it was because they have more experience that Forrest ) He only drove 300 mile with the ECU set to breaking in mode before his life went sideways , he has refuse to sell the car for 7 years ( not been able to have it on the road as not been in the financial position to do so ) he has stored it and maintained it . He has agreed to allow a mechanic of my choice to have the car in to confirm everything he claims before I need to pay him , he also claims to have the receipts for all if not the vast majority of work , he said the engine forge , drivetrain and ECU receipts he has them on hand . I know he has spent £25-30k building this car which yes not seen all the receipts but I have family members and friends that race with this group of people and everyone confirms it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bidi Posted August 31, 2018 Author Share Posted August 31, 2018 9 hours ago, Tidgy said: Andy forrest is running a 6 pot engine, so sounds like he spinning a story. Clinic also wouldn;t be building it to someone else specs, they have considerably more experience then even andy forrest, they have 20 years experience of their own 😉 Is it the current engine that was built by scoobyclinic? when was it built? Whats on the spec sheet? This build is based off of Andy's personal build 9-7 (engine built 7.5-8 years ago) I believe from the time this friend used to know Andy from going to events and so on . Yes it's the current engine that was built by scooby clinic not seen the spec sheet but it was their blueprint for 2.5 400bhp . The engine forging was done at the end I believe after Andy had already advised my friend on what specs he had in his own personal scooby at the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bidi Posted August 31, 2018 Author Share Posted August 31, 2018 Savage bulldog it's the 1995 m reg WRX body and frame under 60k miles total . With the 2008 2.5l WRX STI engine that is fully forged and running 400bhp but is not run in only done 300 miles since engine work so still needs to be broken in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bidi Posted August 31, 2018 Author Share Posted August 31, 2018 12 hours ago, Juddian said: My son had a well modified 2 litre type R running around 330hp. The biggest issue was gearbox, the standard box isn't up to coping with that sort of power if hard driven, he ripped two gearboxes to shreds under full power in either second or third. I'm far from an expert in these things, but don't just be looking at the engine, the drivetrain especially the gearbox has to be capable of handling that type of power too, remember in a normal car the wheels will spin if too much power is applied suddenly, with a Scooby that wheelspin safety valve isn't there so the next weakest link in the chain is what breaks, and you have the extra initial torque of those 500cc's trying to get loose. Not trying to piddle on your parade, just i've seen how much these rebuilds (and the engine work) cost the lad each time, best of luck. Drivetrain gearbox and everything that Andy forrest advised for a 400bhp 2.5 WRX STI in the 1995 body and frame was completed before the engine forging . I appreciate all the warning and doubts given as it gave me pause to reassess each time , this is what has LED to me reaching out to my brother in-law ( been within the same group and watched the car being built ) and he has confirmed everything is as the owner says about the car . As well as my other friends that race with the same group . Obviously I have a mechanic that is willing to check everything over before I pay for it an the owner is 100% confident and has agreed to allow the inspection before he receives payment . It is this willingness to allow a professional to inspect the car that gives me confidence . And the mechanic I am thinking of using is not a scooby expert but drops LS3's in miata's and maintains a half dozen that he has built for people . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bidi Posted August 31, 2018 Author Share Posted August 31, 2018 Oh and where is best for insurance I have tried one company Adrian flux and given the age and model of body and the engine swap forging and said that all advised mods for 400bhp and all available mods to lower the weight of the car without altering the interior . 3k miles a year .£645 , but they said it could get cheaper after a more detailed phonecall , does this sound about right ?? Feel cheap as most company's would not entertain insuring it for me ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savage bulldogs Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Sounds like it will be a capable track car once run in and assume it's had drivetrain swap to handle the power . Things like ally wishbones and bonnet are standard on early jdm wrxs and adjustable suspension and braces can cost from £300 (cheap crap) to about £3k (top notch) . Ecu's from £600 esl map to £3k for syvecs and toucan display . From what your saying about the circle of deep pockets, you'd assume its had at least medium expense aftermarket parts . You never get back the labour and lucky to get back half the cost of parts when selling a car you've built . I'm personally finding it difficult to help with a price , as I've never bought a "track car " and always work /build my own engines and cars . Think you'll have to decide whether you're gonba take a leap of Faith and what "you " want to spend on it ,then keep a little back for paintwork and mapping when making a offer . A scooby breaker would need to know the exact spec ,brands and age of parts before making a offer but if he's willing to list all that ? Asking a breaker what it's worth might be the fairest way to get a figure that you can both agree on . insurance, I'm with flux and pay a little less for my 360hp v1sti , once you have a detailed spec sheet the price can go either way a bit . We do have a discount with them so be sure to mention that and make sure you get a "agreed value policy" . Or most insurers will offer you book price (£2.5k) regardless of what you paid for the car and it's listed mods . Trust me i know lol . Best of luck , feel free to keep us updated and maybe chuck up a few pics if you do buy it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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