Rik Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Hi All, Have any of you guys had any dealings with court proceedings, re buying of goods, cars etc: ? Currently trying to find out what would the cost be if we lose a judgment on a faulty Scooby we've bought privately. Details on another thread of what's happened. Here: http://uk.subaruownersclub.com/forums/topic/15908-help-needed-re-major-engine-repair/ Any info will be well appreciated. Regards, Rik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quit Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Private sale , you would loose So might loose the 35ish quid it costs to set up court etc but If they counter sue you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Posted September 6, 2015 Author Share Posted September 6, 2015 Matt, Thanks. That's a serious worry now...lesson here is:- DON'T BUY PRIVATELY, unless you are 100% mechanically minded and 100% experienced in car mechanics....unless of course you have tons of dosh and couldn't care less! So, for innocently buying a car, well above it's real value, we also stand to have to pay out £3k to fix it. The law needs a serious alteration. Regards, A very worried Rik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmidgley Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Caveat emptor :s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Posted September 6, 2015 Author Share Posted September 6, 2015 Matmidgley, I'm not into Latin but know that my son has been seriously ripped off...buyer beware or not! Rik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quit Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Sorry but that's the law, the seller might not of known If they did and you can prove it you might have a slight chance of winning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoozyDave Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 you have got a chance with a claim, if you ask any question about the car and the seller withholds information you have got grounds for a claim now listen - if your son asked 'have you had any issues with over heating?' and 'is the head gasket ok?' you can raise a small claim case because the car overheated on the journey home and the cause was possibly the head gasket. obviously the seller knew the head gasket had gone and was off loading the car, if your son asked the above questions and the seller said 'it's all sound bruv' then you have a claim. the car was not fit for purpose and should have been sold as spares or repair. it will cost you £3k for a new engine, it's got to be worth £100 to take it to the small claims court 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Posted September 6, 2015 Author Share Posted September 6, 2015 Matt, I know that’s the law but there are thousands of laws that tend to be an idiotic farce. To begin,I assume that all of you on this forum are enthusiasts; I firmly believe you all love your cars. That being the case, why did the seller of this junk heap tell me over the phone; (after my son purchased the car) that he often topped up the coolant and oil. Ask yourselves, would any of you keep topping up coolant and oil without investigating what was causing the losses? How could anyone, (unless they were blind) not notice the thick black residue that was caked all over the walls of the once, white plastic, header / coolant, expansion tank? According to the seller, this car was the love of his life?????So how come, as an enthusiast, could you possibly not notice the dense, tar thick, oil residue, that was also caked around the rubber feed pipe inside the header tank, and also all round the top of the radiator filler area, plus the small coolant container that feeds the turbo.All were caked in oil that had been there for a considerable time. Rik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Posted September 6, 2015 Author Share Posted September 6, 2015 BoozyDave, BTW ...love your avatar. :D Without having recorded the conversation between my son and the seller, we have no proof. What we do have, is that a local garage tested and diagnosed the problem within 3 days of the car being purchased. That was the eariest we could get it booked in. I diagnosed the car had a head gasket failure during the early morning of 31st July. Car was bought on 30th July. Booked into garage for second opinion diagnostics test Monday 3rd August..result .. Head gasket failure! But as you say, £100 to go to court, but as long as it costs no more than that, then all we can do is hope. I sincerely hope this post may help prevent anything like this from happening to any prospective buyers out there. Rik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classic mica Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 What has happened here is an absolute ***** of an experience. But when I used to trade around 5 years back, I only bought off private buyers. Always worked in my and my partners favour at the time. We did it for the love of cars and at the same time making a pretty penny. Also all my cars I've ever bought which include ATR's x3, 2 scoobys in the past, ep3 and the list is endless. We sometimes had a waste of a trip but were always willing to travel sometimes close to upto 300 miles. Buying from trade allows the trader to be liable and does give a buyer that piece of mind I guess and especially if not clued up. Although it can cost thousands more especially when part exchanging, as thats where the money is for traders. My point here is don't let it put you off buying privately. Main thing is to at least go with someone that is a little clued up, I'm sure if the head gasket was that far gone, it should have been spotted via the gunk, the reservoir bottle etc. But not every seller is a con man. If your son drove far for this car, sometimes it works in the favour of the seller purely cos of the mindset of when travelling 100's of miles people usually don't like to go away empty handed. But a wasted day and money spent on petrol can save thousands. There are many many good people out there, that if they know of a problem will highlight it and tell you directly any serious issues with the car. Some may not genuinely know and with private sellers, sold as seen. Don't let this one experience put you off buying from genuine people, they do still exist. Your individual case however does signal the buyer was aware, and it's a shame that some *** has probably taken advantage of your son. When a buyer recently came for my car, he didn't even check the oil, water levels, and a few other bits that wanted checking. I have often had buyers like this in the past, very trusting and not clued up on even the car they are buying. My advice always given weather they buy mine or not: Research the model you are buying, common faults/problems, check history, check oil levels, reservoir bottles, clutch biting points, locking nut key! and a few other things. I.e if vtec-make sure it kicks in (I have seen faulty, ONLY 1), anything that can give you as a buyer a bargaining point. To be fair I usually give this advice after sealing the deal, however what I used to sell, I always make/made sure I would buy it myself & any known faults repaired to a standard as if I was keeping the car for myself or a family member. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambit Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Sorry to hear that Rik. I can't stand people like that I hope he's not a member here. But as said I wouldn't let it put you off buying privately not all are to$$ers. As for the court thing was it listed anywhere with it saying in prefect running order make sure you get the listing printed off. Just get everything you can and make sure any contact is done in writing with copies and signed for postage if you do speak to them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 Classic Mica, Apologies for the very late reply. Thanks so much for your detailed explanation outlining possible faults / flaws to check. My son has learned a VERY costly lesson here with the purchase of this car and it has lain on my driveway now for the past 5 weeks without being able to be used. He taxed and insured it at a high cost and all that money may as well have been put in the dustbin. To be honest, the car looks, (on the face of it,) a very nice vehicle, and apart from two small dings on the bonnet face, it is in near mint condition, body and interior .. He obviously bought it for the love of Scoobies alone and for the fact it looks a really nice car, but although he thinks he 'knows it all' , he's young and naive when it comes to the general mechanics of vehicles. The seller is obviously in a far better position to fight this case than we are and as we all know ... money talks. He very rarely used the Scooby, or at least that's what he told us and he'd barely driven it this year...that seems rather odd to me, as it would have been a nice motor for driving. I'm presently taking advice from Trading Standards and Citizens Advice to see how to proceed. Trouble is we could lose the case and then suffer even more loss...something I can ill afford to do, as I'm a disabled old git with no income to back this up. As I've previously mentioned on here, I just hope this post / thread helps prevent another case like this and causing some other poor soul to fall into a similar trap. Kind regards, Rik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 Gambit, Sorry for the late reply. Thanks to you too for your sympathetic input and advice ...once again, it's very much appreciated. It strikes me that the seller purposely took the precaution of avoiding to insert any details regarding the mechanical condition of the car. It was advertised in 'Autotrader' and only outlined the model and replaced ancilliaries, he'd included 14 photos of the bodywork. Had I been the one selling a such high performance vehicle, I would have emphasised the mechanical virtues of such a car and would clearly state that the engine and transmission were in first class condition. Were that to be the case of course. As that was not the case, then the obvious thing to do would be to omit giving any details, re engine, and hope any prospective buyers would be attracted mainly by pictures of the car. Kind regards, Rik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr B Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 i buy all my cars private if possible, normally were best cars are found if you know the basics to avoid major issues. I expect seller did know but chances of proving this in court will be next to zero, seller will state he not knowledgeable & will also push point vehicle was open to any inspection so then it your fault for not inspecting properly. 2.5 lumps a notorious for HG issues . The law is an a55 & I feel your pain, don't go trusting dealers too much as they experts at peddling turds & can play the law as well clued up on it. Main trick when buying a car is test & look at everything, take no notice of sellers/owners & don't rush into things. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 Mr B, I tend to agree with you when it comes to sellers and I totally distrust all dealers, that also includes the rip-off merchant Main Dealers too. Main dealer labour prices, as well as new and used car mark up percentages beggar belief, but our trading laws allow them to do as they please. My main concern here, is one you've highlighted. That the seller, in court, will deny all knowledge of any fault and will state that the car was open to inspection. In a nutshell, that's where we may fail to convince a court that we fully inspected the car, even though my son is inexperienced in car mechanics. As I've already said on here, had I have been able to get to see the car then, no way would he have sold it to him as my mechanical experience from the past would have identified the fault within minutes. From reading the replies here, it looks as though we're on a loser, big time, and because of the high cost to repair it may mean we'll have to try to sell the car 'as is'. As to what we could get for it, goodness only knows? Regards, Rik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Hate to say it but its buyer beware unless you can prove they knowingly sold you a duffer. On the flip side you could have gone otu and thrashed it blowing it up. Not saying that's the case at all, i'm just saying how he would counter argue. will prob be in the 2-3k mark :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr B Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I have done a fair few 2.5 HG & if it not been used much or leakage minimal then you will be ok just doing the heads, I done a few that way & know they been good as still service & mot them. no idea on state of your lump though as need see & here it to make those decisions ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quit Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Also got to bear in mind he might counter sue you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 Tidgy, I see what you're saying, 'buyer beware', that's all very well for those who are well clued up with cars but TBH most folk are not clued up at all. My son is one of them. As for him thrashing it on the way home...not a chance in hell. My daughter took him in her old Renault 1400cc Scenic and he followed her all the way back home. Not in a million years would she do over 70mph...more like 60mph max, so the Scooby would have been practically idling. Regards, Rik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 Mr B, The car starts fine,doesn't seem to lack power, pulls well, sounds sweet, no white smokey stuff and the oil, although could do with changing, shows no trace of coolant or contamination, or at least I can't see it. It's the coolant that was contaminated with oil that points to HG's. There's no low end knocking, but the tappets could do with adjustment, as they can be heard ticking merrily but they are not loud, just a normal everyday tappet sound. The engine bay is now very clean and is easy to detect any fluid or hose leaks. There doesn't appear to be any oil or fluid stains on my drive and the car has stood there for over 5 weeks. Has not been driven since it was taken to local garage for diagnostic test on 3rd August. Most people here talk about needing a complete engine re-build, so you're amongst the few who have said ... just change the HG's. Still very concerned about putting money into a small claims court appeal, that's why I asked for people's views on here. Matt mentions the seller may counter sue. Regards, Rik. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quit Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Not being funny but you are calling him a con man when he might be innocent It's a old used car end of the day , if your prepared to take the risk without a proper inspection then we'll sorry that's life If someone was saying I was a con man and I was innocent , I wouldn't be happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 Matt, I very much doubt any of you on this forum, who own, or who have owned, (be it old, or not) a Scooby for several years,fail to notice that you have to keep topping up coolant and, when doing so, are oblivious to the fact that the coolant header expansion tank is caked in dense oil residue. Yes, hoses and loose fitting clips etc;etc; can cause coolant losses but when re-filling the header tank you'd have to be blind to fail to see the state this one was in. Were the tank made of black plastic, instead of the opaque white plastic, as it is, then you could be forgiven for not seeing the tell tail warning signs. These cars are not your everyday Ford, Vauxhall, run of the mill vehicles, they're enthusiasts cars and enthusiasts don't normaly overlook things like coolant losses. Rik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quit Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 What's the quote for getting it fixed if you don't mind me asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quit Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Not always enthusiast csrs I got a couple which were just general cars and one was the " wife's " , but yeah I see what you mean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 Hi Matt, Thanks for asking. When I called the Scooby Clinic they said £3000 but they said it could go higher. Something we can't afford to do. Regards, Rik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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