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Starting problem


Kanny
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I seem to be having a starting problem on my 55 plate 2.5xt ....it's starts fine when its cold or when its at operating temperature  but when its just warm its struggling to start it fires but dies straight of ....any ideas anyone? 

 

Thanks 

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Car won't start at all now it's just turning over with no firing  the Battery looks old but seem to be plenty in it ? ... I've got home start so i will call them out in the morning  the first thing they will do is try a jump so i will take it from there ...any suggestions would be much appreciated?   it's done it a couple of times before when the engine was just warm but after 15 mins started fine but not  today.

 

Thanks

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Any check engine codes stored or flashed up ?

Could be anything from not getting any fuel to bad coil to something simple like a relay gone,

I'd you put the rear seats down climb into the boot get someone else to turn the key to the 2nd position, can you hear the fuel pump prime ?

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no codes ...  it was fine this morning  i was out for about a hour and stopped and started a few times no problem  then came home I went to jump in it a couple of hours later and its not having it ...it was simlar circumstances when it did it before but was ok after 15 mins :hmm:   I will see if it wants to play later or in the morning but either way I need to get to the bottom of it for reliability ... thanks I will have a listen tomorrow if I get no joy 

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1 hour ago, stants said:

When was it last serviced?

The plugs can be a bit of a pain and some people neglect them, maybe previous owner didn't bother ?

Could also be crank sensor on way out,

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I've just had a look at the history and it last had plugs NGK titanium  plugs 22k miles ago 

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15 minutes ago, stants said:

Well that rules at least two thing out, plus fuel pumps priming, how are the ht leads looking ?

Does your car have the factor fit alarm ?

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I will try have a look later after work.. Yes it is a factory fit alarm.. I think the key to this mystery is the fact it only does this when the car is in a just warm state.. I'm thinking a choke issue because of that fact... But I'm a cabinet maker not a mechanic lol 

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So it seems after scanning the net that this is quite a common problem however finding a cure seems to be more difficult.. . Now I'm getting crank or cam sensor thrown up alot in my investigations but I'm not getting any error codes to confirm this..can these go wrong and not give a error message?  And which out of the 2 is it more likely to be as I don't want to be replacing stuff if it doesn't need it... Both look fairly easy to change out from the how to videos I've seen but no doubt mine will be totally different and a right pain.. Thats normally how it seems to go lol 

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Almost unrelated but I recently had a maf sensor fail. I had a cel light 2-3 months previous but it never came back so didn't think much of it. Ruined my fueling and on replacing it, it helped but then needed a small tweak to get the original power back.

Morale of the story I guess is sensors can partially fail without giving you a warning light.

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Sensors do fail without throwing codes as ghost says,

The 02 sensor could flash up and dissappear in a second in 1000 miles and the only way you'd know is if you ran a diagnostic,

I'd hazard a guess to the crank sensor failing more than a cam sensor if it's turning over but not firing, where abouts are you ? Maybe someone local willing to 'lend' you a sensor so you can swap it and see if the fault goes,

That way you can narrow down your fault without spending unnecessary money and time,

Maybe worth having a look at the sensor in situ may have a damaged or loose wire, it's at the front of the engine, shine a light in between the pullies next to the alternator

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Cheers I will have a look tomorrow I've already found the crank sensor its the easiest out the two and the cheepest. ..the cam sensor on mine is buried away I've got to move a few things to get access I can't see it but I know its there ..  so i will start with the crank and see how it goes ...thanks all for your input .... one last thing where do you lot recommend for such parts I've come across a couple of places on my travels down this road but just wondering who y'all  recommend ?

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Just a thought tell me what you think.. 

Last week I decided to treat the car to a tank full of V power...this problem started when I got down to about quarter of a tank of the v power.... Could the v power be the problem?  could it's cleaning effect have dislodged some dirt causing a blockage somewhere....  The car has been totally fine today no problem whatsoever I've been starting it at different intervals and it's started first turn everytime.. 

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With regards to v power, they should always be run on premium fuel, reduces the likelihood of knock, it takes a while for the ecu to re learn the fuel so maybe it threw a wobbler,

I'd do a full reset anyway run a couple of tanks of v power though and see what's happening, I'd log your mpg too I will probably increase slightly

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3 hours ago, stants said:

With regards to v power, they should always be run on premium fuel, reduces the likelihood of knock, it takes a while for the ecu to re learn the fuel so maybe it threw a wobbler,

I'd do a full reset anyway run a couple of tanks of v power though and see what's happening, I'd log your mpg too I will probably increase slightly

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I think your right about the ecu throwing a wobbler ...I left work put another tank of v power in and had half  a hour of fun... the car felt more responsive... i then came home put the car on the drive and let it  cool. I've just been out to try it and it started straight up ....hopefully  fingers crossed its sorted now. ...I've not bothered   resetting the ecu as all seems  good now so I'm happy ...if it ain't broke and all that ....thanks

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Exact details of crank but no start will help diagnosis, example, if cranking and absolute no firing it probably sensor issue . checking spark on cop pack would be good . can't see it being something that going fix itself or type of fuel in use .
If you can here fuel pump priming when key turned on then it should run few seconds or splutter on that line pressure even if pump didn't run when cranking so if no firing cop not getting signals as ecu probably getting poor data on a sensor. very common for specific temp condition trigger sensor component fault .
You can review sensors using service manual data but better diagnosis needs oscilloscope and possibly fault be more persistent which could even give a fault code to help point probable area start checks .
 

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Thanks for the advice Mr B ....   all is good at the moment I've been checking it all thorough the temperature range and its starting fine every time "if" it does again then i will investigate further but I'm reluctant to throw money at it at this point in what could be a ghost Chase I've done it before with other cars...I will keep a close eye on things and see how it goes. 

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