September 11, 201510 yr Author Matt, No, not just the HG's, they said the engine would require a rebuild, as the heads would need skimming and that alters / raises the compression, hence it stresses the btm end shells, crank etc: It all rests on how much damage was caused by seller's mismanagement of the cooling system. That can only be assessed when the engine is stripped down unfortunately. I'm dreading the thought of going to a court over this but the truth is, we really are the victims, though many would beg to differ. Regards, Rik.
September 11, 201510 yr comp ratio can be reset by using thicker head gasket or machining head chamber to set volume correct. amount skim off heads is absolute minimal as it just about refacing/cleaning super smooth and not about correcting warping or pitting issues as HG issue on these is down to HG break down ... I've done a few 2.5 turbos over the years & never done or had bottom end issues from them .
September 11, 201510 yr Author Mr B, I suppose there are those who say it needs a rebuild, then they are covered if a customer were to try to lay blame at their door if they just did a HG replacement and 6 months down the line the shells start rattling. Thanks for your useful info. Regards, Rik
September 12, 201510 yr ^ you need quality head gaskets such as cosworth, rocker seals, inlet/exhaust gaskets, oil & filters, coolant, head inspection & surfacing, timing belt. £500+ in quality parts/machine-shop for decent effort .
September 12, 201510 yr Author Matt, If a court were to find in our favour .... which is a risk we'd have to take; then we may get a refund to cover these costs. I can see what you say, £500 should provide a good proportion of parts costs if it is only the HG's that need to be repaired. Labour costs by a garage would add a substantial amount to that. Regards, Rik
September 12, 201510 yr Author Mr B, I honestly don't know what damage has been done by water ingress into this engine, so it may mean the higher cost to fix all of the bottom end. If damage is minimal and only the HG's need sorting, then the parts cost you've mentioned would be OK. All rests on internal inspection of the engine and none of that can be touched (at least I don't think it can,) if I take it to court and that is highly likely, as we feel strongly that we've been taken for a ride, so to speak. Regards, Rik.
September 13, 201510 yr Hi Matt, Thanks for asking. BTW I altered the post you mentioned earlier. When I called the Scooby Clinic they said £3000 but they said it could go higher. Something we can't afford to do. Regards, Rik. thats stupid money, subary themselves only charge around £2500 that includes even shaving the head and everything. Scooby Clinic are definitely way over charging.
September 13, 201510 yr Author Steveuk260, Thanks for that. Local Subaru main dealer charge £87.50 per hr plus Vat, for Labour, so I'm told. They gave a rough estimate of 10 hrs to replace the HG's, but on top of that there are the parts costs which they say would take the price to over £1,500. They also say the price could go way more, depending on exactly how long it took to do the work. This is not for a full engine rebuild ... just the HG's. So the Scooby Clinic are about right. That doesn't alter the fact it's a huge cost when added to the price the car cost. Regards, Rik
September 14, 201510 yr with a 2.5 if the headgaskets go, you must do the crank bearings as well. clinic just finished rebuilding a hatch engine for someone who the previous company didn't and before it was even run in crank bearings failed.
September 14, 201510 yr Author Tidgy, That certainly is a worrying read, as to do the full rebuild is going to cost £3000, as has been stated. Rik.
September 14, 201510 yr with a 2.5 if the headgaskets go, you must do the crank bearings as well. clinic just finished rebuilding a hatch engine for someone who the previous company didn't and before it was even run in crank bearings failed. Absolute rubbish, I have done a fair few 2.5 heads gaskets only & had no come backs & have 2 which regular for servicing & mot & one of those done almost 60k with no issues. HG issue is breakdown of coating & normally it leaks external & any water ingress is minimal, obviously you gauge engine condition prior to planning route of repair but a lot of these leaks are so small they hard to diagnose let alone bad enough to do any major damage. Bottom bearings are engineered for greatest stress & that is not from compression or ignition but from inertia of sudden change of direction at bottom & top of stroke, that load can be around 10x that of combustion.
September 14, 201510 yr Absolute rubbish, I have done a fair few 2.5 heads gaskets only & had no come backs & have 2 which regular for servicing & mot & one of those done almost 60k with no issues. HG issue is breakdown of coating & normally it leaks external & any water ingress is minimal, obviously you gauge engine condition prior to planning route of repair but a lot of these leaks are so small they hard to diagnose let alone bad enough to do any major damage. Bottom bearings are engineered for greatest stress & that is not from compression or ignition but from inertia of sudden change of direction at bottom & top of stroke, that load can be around 10x that of combustion. you've been very very lucky then.
September 14, 201510 yr Well a mate of mine would disagree, his didn't even get it fully run in before it spat its crank.
September 14, 201510 yr A lot of the problems can be caused from debris entering oilways during rebuild & also lack of good oil flushing cycle after rebuilt. If engine is evaluated well prior to work commencing & work done to a high standard then it not a problem, you always going get an odd job go bad but making a mountain out of a molehill just to cover your a55 on every job at expense of the customer is not professional service or good mechanical engineering.
September 15, 201510 yr back on topic, i think you would struggle in court. The real risk is counter sue and risk of a CCJ against yourself
September 15, 201510 yr Author Matt, Thanks for your help here, it's appreciated. I seem to believe you may have some professional expertise in this field and from what you are saying, it is causing me great concern. I'm a very honest person and have always believed in the policy of honesty pays, but it seems from what you are saying I could end up being criminalised in a way, for something that is definitely not our fault. Going to court is something I'm not familiar with, but the Citizens Advice people seem to think it's right in this case. However, I would much prefer the seller to admit the car was faulty at point of sale but he's not going to do that in a hurry, simply because he has to part with cash to recompense. Were the ball on the other foot; I would have taken the car back, or refunded for the repair, whatever the buyer found to be fair. I'm totally confused as to why would I get a CCJ? Can you help explain please? Kind regards, Rik.
September 15, 201510 yr Grinds my gears. Whenever I've sold a car privately I'm brutally honest. Sold an astra that had a sticky starter motor. I could've blagged that as it started first time I showed the bloke round. Just don't get bitter. I've been burnt before in a similar way to you now. Had no knowledge of imprezas. Bought an impreza and all looked good. Water was full. Drove the car didn't over heat and needle stayed at half. Got back and still looked well. Took the car home and checked all levels next morning on cold start. Found no water. Filled it up and then found leaks. No idea how it wasn't leaking when I first looked. Anyway. It cost me a replacment engine as the seller wasnt interested. I was sold the car as fully working and no issues at all. Once burnt twice shy for sure.
September 15, 201510 yr if you loose in court, he may decide to counter sue you and if he won, a judgement would be issued this is totally worse case scenario but : His costs for seeing you in court say roughly: Day off work: £300 transport : £20 Solicitor £500 Then he counter sues you Time to prepare say 1 day £300 Transport £20 Solicitor £500 Court cost: £70 Compo?? your already pushing 2k before compo! and thats playing it safe could charge 500 a day for work you never know If he doesnt answer the phone, tried a friendly letter? Have you a receipt?
September 15, 201510 yr Author ScoobyGhost, I really feel sorry for what happened to you and those pics you've shown!! Was that the mess you were confronted with? I honestly can't understand how these people sleep at night...but the world seems to have its fair share of criminals and those that sell duff cars to unsuspecting hard working individuals. Rik.
September 15, 201510 yr ScoobyGhost, I really feel sorry for what happened to you and those pics you've shown!! Was that the mess you were confronted with? I honestly can't understand how these people sleep at night...but the world seems to have its fair share of criminals and those that sell duff cars to unsuspecting hard working individuals. Rik. That was the engine swap for a replacement engine. Luckily I have a very friendly mechanic friend who did it as a favour. I stripped most the nuts and bolts myself. He had the engine lift and made sure we were all plugged in correctly. You are not alone in this situation. As you see I've been there and I know your pain right now. The frustration is overwhelming. I'm sorry I can't be of any more specific help.
September 15, 201510 yr Author Matt, The figures you've mentioned are scary. £300 for a day off work?? I don't get that sort of money per month, let alone a day. Food for thought indeed and after reading what you've written I'm so worried now that I don't think I could go ahead with a court hearing now. There's no way I could afford to lose that sort of cost on top of the £3000 we seem to be out of pocket with already. For the innocent always seem to lose out and if you're honest, you're wasting your life Yes, we have a receipt, but obviously receipts (in this case,) aren't worth the paper they're written on. Thanks again for you input here. Regards, Rik.
September 15, 201510 yr Author ScoobyGhost, That's a very nice gesture to say you apologise for not being able to help more and I can honestly say it gives me a warm felling to know there are many on here that feel the same way. As you rightly point out, it is overwhelming to be in this, what I feel is a dreadful situation. Regards, Rik.
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