Project light restore/tidy up of a UK classic turbo

[ScoobyBlueClassic]

As suggested a little build thread for my 1998 UK classic “restore”.  
 

I’m more into my German metal currently owning a Mk1 Golf and soon to be joined by another Polo G40 having owned one before and found another and the daily is an Audi S1.   Not really been passionate about Scoobies really either I prefer subtle cars (although 4 !Removed! pipes on the S1 isn’t really subtle).  Anyway I saw this Scooby on Autotrader and thought when will I get another chance to own one like this?  Car is completely original, no mods, and done 60k miles.  So on to the restore; well I say “restore” but it’s more of a thorough going over of body and engine/gearbox/drive train.   There are no major issues but lots of smaller ones and the odd larger one...probably better than average after 22 years and probably little more than general maintenance having been carried out.   Car has had a bit of welding in the past but it’s general solid having been checked over by a specialist. 
 

Talking of specialists I don’t have the time or knowledge on these cars so have “cheated” and outsourced the work to one and the car is booked to go in on 18th Jan and should take about 6-8 weeks from there if all goes to plan (famous last words).  I should be getting regular photo and progress updates which I’ll share 

A brief outline of the work to be under taken:

 

Parking dents

Engine out and clean bay

Rear main seal and oil separator plate

Cam seals

Gearbox seals

Front oil pump seal

Side shaft seals

Remove rust on underside

Powder coat and sand blast front and rear subframes

Clean and re-furbish differential

Waxoyl under body

Replace timing belt kit

Address misfire; hopefully plugs or leads 

Replace all oils and fluids

Zinc coat under body bolts

New under body bushes

Sort out leak into boot

Objective is to end up with a UK classic that remains fully OEM, usable (in the dry only) and should be good for the next 10-20 years. 

This is how it stands now 

 

 

[ScoobyBlueClassic]

Well d day arrived this week and it’s in the garage now.   Will update this thread as work progresses.

Car was once featured in the motoring press under the title “World’s top car is...” and I have the article with the car which I’ll share when it all gets to me.  

[ScoobyBlueClassic]

Car is getting stripped now.  A few photos 

 

 

[Jay762]

That underside looks in really good shape

[nictriumph]

have you checked the rear shock towers,they are prone to rust badly ideally you wont to remove the shocks and have a good look at both sides

but it does look good and clean for its age even thou they were only designed for 10year life span

[ScoobyBlueClassic]

Thanks both

I have a question I need to get back on.  So the car has a slight weep in the head gasket it’s not gone or anything like that so I have 3 choices as engine is out of car:

Pop engine back as is and know I’ll face a rebuild in future 

Or have work done now (new casing etc) which gives me 2options.

Rebuild as a 2.0 stroke or rebuild as a 2.1 stroke using 2.5 crank and Mahle forged pistons.  Now keeping in mind I know nothing about these cars and I will keep it OEM power but I understand it would rev a little more freely and sound quieter, taking a bit of pressure of the turbo.

or finally use a new STI deck block rather than rebuild as above (slightly cheaper).

What would be the most sensible option ?

Thanks a lot 

[ScoobyBlueClassic]

15 hours ago, nictriumph said:

have you checked the rear shock towers,they are prone to rust badly ideally you wont to remove the shocks and have a good look at both sides

but it does look good and clean for its age even thou they were only designed for 10year life span

Thank-yoi for the tip.  Yes been checked, tiny amount of rust starting that’ll get sorted -  nothing nasty thankfully!! 

[flat6]

Rear subframe mounts ok? These just killed my '98 SF Forester.

[ScoobyBlueClassic]

21 minutes ago, flat6 said:

Rear subframe mounts ok? These just killed my '98 SF Forester.

Sorry to hear that, hidden killer.  Yes and front and rear subframes are coming off for shot blasting. 

[savage bulldogs]

Coming along nicely,  looking quite clean for a uk car too .

If the car is a investment (ie you're hoping it will go up in value then sell),it would probably hold its value better with the stock block refreshed at some point when needed .

If you intend on lightly modifying it the classic 5 speed is only rated to around 320hp (safely) and the stock block will run the same levels .

If you intend on aiming higher than that then I'd say get a 2.1 built and save for a stronger 6 speed . Then it would be the engine deck type,internals and budget that would be the limiting factor for hp target .

[Jay762]

As above do you want to keep it standard for investment or invest to get slightly more performance and peace of mind for reliability knowing it has all been sorted

[ScoobyBlueClassic]

Thanks both.  I want to keep it stock power wise so was really against any changes that could stop me saying it’s stock.   However given there seemed little difference in price between the two (2.0 or 2.1) ~£1k I was tempted by the notion that it would improve the standard engine (and give someone the option to do a power upgrade in future if I ever sell).  
 

Savage you’ve convinced me that I’m going to stick with stock block so appreciate that - if I wanted to get the head gasket replaced now (as it’s weeping, they say probably ok for a year or 3 but no guarantees and all that) and engine is out what parts should I replace?  they spoke about risk of warping (do these not skim well? Are they generally always a pain after head gasket is replaced?) and better to just buy new which really pushes the cost up (we’re talking £5k or more all done).  I could go down the refurb route but I’d not scrimp for the sake a £1k - do it once, do it right.

 

[savage bulldogs]

Heads skim fine and very rarely have any issues (no cracking or warping)  .So heads just require a de grease ,face check/skim ,valves lapped in ,valve clearances checked and reassembled with new stem seals to refurbish them.

H.g don't often leak outside the block , if they go they normally leak combustion gasses into the coolant instead . Most h.g failures are on the 2.5 ej or stock 2ltrs running higher boost levels .

If you're going to strip and rebuild the block stock parts/gaskets are fine but you could upgrade the h.g to "stopper headgaskets " (rcm or cossie) just for piece of mind .

If you intend on dropping the engine back in "as is" and rebuild at a later date ? Then get them to change both cam cover gaskets and half moons , as they do tend to get brittle and weap with the engine heat cycles . Also rear crank seal and check clutch condition,  yet again makes sense to do this while engine is out too .

 

 

[ScoobyBlueClassic]

2 hours ago, savage bulldogs said:

Heads skim fine and very rarely have any issues (no cracking or warping)  .So heads just require a de grease ,face check/skim ,valves lapped in ,valve clearances checked and reassembled with new stem seals to refurbish them.

H.g don't often leak outside the block , if they go they normally leak combustion gasses into the coolant instead . Most h.g failures are on the 2.5 ej or stock 2ltrs running higher boost levels .

If you're going to strip and rebuild the block stock parts/gaskets are fine but you could upgrade the h.g to "stopper headgaskets " (rcm or cossie) just for piece of mind .

If you intend on dropping the engine back in "as is" and rebuild at a later date ? Then get them to change both cam cover gaskets and half moons , as they do tend to get brittle and weap with the engine heat cycles . Also rear crank seal and check clutch condition,  yet again makes sense to do this while engine is out too .

 

 

Thanks again.  I’ll get them to price up the based on the above work and see what that looks like.  Really appreciate the advice 👍🏻

[ScoobyBlueClassic]

Waiting price on refresh work.  What would be a fair price range would you think?  I got the quote through on the 2.1 build and it wasn’t as expensive as I thought it might be but it’s all relative I suppose (was initially thinking £7k but was cheaper than that).

Would it be worth doing a gearbox and diff strip and rebuild new seals etc while we’re here?  That’ll set me back another £1k, nothing particularly suggesting they need doing but it’s all getting on in years now so might be prudent?

Thanks again 

[savage bulldogs]

Hopefully someone else will have a better idea on full costing,  I do most things myself and don't really know how much labour costs are .

If you do go for the 2.1 option , you'll have to get it remapped due to the displacement increase needing more fuel . 

But are you getting further away from stock, if its primarily a investment car?

I'm sure uk turbo prices will increase as rarity does and the more you spend the better the car will be  but also the longer you'll have to wait to recoup what you've spent (higher value needed) 

Don't get me wrong my old uk turbo ran 270hp once remapped, with just a exhaust and panel filter and was a fun car to drive  😎

And I love my current 2.1 😊

 

If the box / drivetrain has nothing wrong with it but is being removed to clean up the underside?

I'd just clean it up and replace the seals (about £40) 

 

[ScoobyBlueClassic]

Thanks again.   I don’t think I’ll make money anytime soon on it, this is really about preserving something in its original guise.   And yes hopefully in time that originality makes it more desirable.     Definitely not doing the 2.1 now if it will need a remap that’s certainly too far away from stock for me.  I have a G40 that’s modded so can always have fun with that if I want to tinker some more. I was asked if I wanted the shocks painted white which would probably look quite smart but if they came out of factory black   Black they stay   Same with break callipers, red would look nice but they are getting repainted in  black  

As far as I know there is nothing wrong with the gearbox and diff so I’ll just go for new seals 👍🏻 
 

cheers again 

[Jay762]

Once you have it all in place a remap is not a bad thing to have - not necessarily for more power but just some fine tweaking to get the fueling spot on throughout the range. The Subaru maps are generic and put in place to ensure the motor will work in sandy hot parts of the world and cold northern hemisphere, members have reported better response, improved midrange and slightly better MPG on standard cars with remaps. Food for thought

[ScoobyBlueClassic]

12 hours ago, Jay762 said:

Once you have it all in place a remap is not a bad thing to have - not necessarily for more power but just some fine tweaking to get the fueling spot on throughout the range. The Subaru maps are generic and put in place to ensure the motor will work in sandy hot parts of the world and cold northern hemisphere, members have reported better response, improved midrange and slightly better MPG on standard cars with remaps. Food for thought

I didn’t think the ecu on the 98 turbo was remappable?  Might be wrong.  I know what you mean, they build tolerances in to the standard maps which you don’t necessarily need.

I’ve gone for a full rebuild on the 2.0 including new block just because current one has had 22 years of heating up and cooling down - it ain’t cheap but it’ll sort the engine out for the next 10-20 years.  Hopefully valves etc are ok that’ll keep the costs down a bit.   Gearbox and diff are just having seals done,  nothing obviously wrong with them.   

[nictriumph]

heatcycle.....you see loads of driver get in the car turn key and floor the crap out it when it cold.boy racers are prone for it

you should let the car slowly warm up,try not to engage the turbo to boost...but you know what drivers are like

[Jay762]

9 hours ago, ScoobyBlueClassic said:

I didn’t think the ecu on the 98 turbo was remappable?  Might be wrong.  I know what you mean, they build tolerances in to the standard maps which you don’t necessarily need.

Ah no - apologies forgot we were discussing a classic. You are correct as standard they can not be mapped. The ESL board makes it possible for a 98

http://www.enduringsolutions.com/shop/#!/Board-97-8-Optional-discounted-cable-and-software-available/p/33042556/category=0

[flat6]

I still have a '99 ecu, which is remappable I believe, from my old turbo 2000 (I replaced it with a Prodrive one). Happy to part with it for £30 posted.

[ScoobyBlueClassic]

9 hours ago, flat6 said:

I still have a '99 ecu, which is remappable I believe, from my old turbo 2000 (I replaced it with a Prodrive one). Happy to part with it for £30 posted.

Did the 99 have slightly different BHP and torque?   Like 215 versus 208bhp?  Or did I dream that?   Presume looms etc are the same in the classic?  If so I don’t really intend to remap but always happy to have a spares, pm me your PayPal if that ok mate? Much appreciate the offer 

[flat6]

10 minutes ago, ScoobyBlueClassic said:

Did the 99 have slightly different BHP and torque?   Like 215 versus 208bhp?  Or did I dream that?   Presume looms etc are the same in the classic?  If so I don’t really intend to remap but always happy to have a spares, pm me your PayPal if that ok mate? Much appreciate the offer 

I believe so, yes. Apparently it's the best map out of the 3 final years. Pretty sure it would be plug and play, but best check before going ahead. There's probably some more info on this on scoobynet.

[savage bulldogs]

Up to v4 (early 98 ) the ecus aren't remappable without fitting a esl daughter board, so either that or a aftermarket ECU is needed to change ECU map parameters .

That v5/v6 ECU is remappable using just software (ecutek) but unfortunately it wont fit into a v3/v4, due to different ecu harness plugs and engine loom differences .

If you're after a cheaper alternative ,a stock ECU from a v3/v4 wrx would plug n play ,as long as the injectors are the same size /colour as your current v3/v4 uk . WRX's generally run the same engines and turbos as the uk counterparts of the same version but run a little more boost in the stock map (should see around 30 hp gain)

If you did decide to remap and kept everything "stock" youd probably see around 260hp with a increase in torque and responsiveness. 

You could always get a second hand v3/v4 remappable ECU and get it mapped but keep the stock ECU.  Then switch it back to stock or include it in the sale 😉