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600bhp What does it take?


cornish6544
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So thinking far into the future it would be a dream to get this car to reach 500 or 600 bhp so apart from millions of pound what does it take haha. My thinking was to have the engine built to take a ridiculous amount of power but then just keep it running around 300-350bhp and acquire what i need to get the full potential over the years. I need the engine rebuilt soon anyway and I'm just thinking while its out why not go all out when i know what i have planned for the future.

The car has done 110,000 miles now i have no proof off any previous owners of a rebuild in the past but i have had the cam belt checked and all is well. Its running 312bhp now being held back by dirty injectors and a 5 speed box which I've been told will go if its pushed much further.

Current specs:

440 yellow injectors , front mount intercooler , RCM fuel pump , K&N 9" cone filter , TDO5 turbo , 3" straight pipe exhaust from the turbo back.

So just want peoples opinions of what it would take:biggrin:

what Injectors?

what turbo?

what internals to go for?

can the car handle it?

Know anyone who has done it?

 

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About 35-40k at a guess to be reliable . Basicly dump all your engine and running gear in the bin and start from scratch.

Pretty much exactly what my plans are but staying 500-550.

Unless your going to start going on track alot then 600 is ott for the road. 500-550 is a much easier target to hit with out silly budget , will be alot better to drive on the road and be alot more reliable. Higher power you go the less miles you'll get before needing an engine refresh.

Personal choice would be closed decked 2.5, nitride crank, rods, piston, spec c big port avcs heads, a large amount if supporting mods like front mount, oil cooler, suitable injectors etc, suitable turbo, syvecs ecu, UK hawk 6 speed gearbox and rear diff, competion clutch twin plate clutch, full set of AP brakes all round, decent suspension and other things like arbs and anti lift etc etc

500bhp in a car that didn't have the right setup will be all over the shop.

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wow now thats a lot of money haha.

No i cant see it being used as a track car just maybe now and again for fun not anything extreme

So 500 is the figure to aim at then? Am i correct in getting it built first then adding what i need to reach 500 later on as i couldn't afford it all at once.

Ive been quoted 15 grand by scoobyclinc after a few emails in the past discussing reaching 430bhp which did include a 6 speed and turbo. But I'm more for the idea of just getting the engine built to handle the figure safely then worrying about reaching that figure in the future i wouldn't mind having a 500bhp capable engine but only running 350 for now.

 

Thanks for the help 

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Taking the staged approach is cost effective but as Tidgy says if you look at the end state total cost that is realistic - a good CDB stroker short block build capable of 700bhp will cost you about 7.5K with all named / quality components - you can use a lot of your existing engine ancillaries and replace / upgrade as appropriate. A point of note though is consideration for the other bits - yes you can generate the power but keeping your build alive means investing in protection - things like a dry sump system , air oil separators etc - this is where unexpected additional cost can lie.   

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Just now, Jay762 said:

Taking the staged approach is cost effective but as Tidgy says if you look at the end state total cost that is realistic - a good CDB stroker short block build capable of 700bhp will cost you about 7.5K with all named / quality components - you can use a lot of your existing engine ancillaries and replace / upgrade as appropriate. A point of note though is consideration for the other bits - yes you can generate the power but keeping your build alive means investing in protection - things like a dry sump system , air oil separators etc - this is where unexpected additional cost can lie.   

personally i'd stay away from a stroked build for a road car purley because the extra low down grunt the 2.5 generates is much more usable in the road environment. Although you can stroke a 2.5 to a 2.7,,,, hmmmmmm, hahahaha

Your gonna need to source a closed deck block for it anyway so may as well look at what options are available with any different block.

Spec in mine is a closed decked 2.5, nitride crank (can't remember what the stock 2.5 crank will take so may not need this and not 100% sure which is in mine but is speced for it so if stock is good enough thats what will be in it) mahle pistons, manley rods. ACL bearings, ARP headstuds. I'm running rebuilt v5 heads with supertech valve kit.

Getting the block converted correctly is vital, seen some right shoody jobs with the inserts just hamered in rather than machined and pressed in for a tight fit :o Speak to Alyn at AS performance about the conversion, he's highly regarded for doing this.

 

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9 minutes ago, Tidgy said:

personally i'd stay away from a stroked build for a road car purley because the extra low down grunt the 2.5 generates is much more usable in the road environment. Although you can stroke a 2.5 to a 2.7,,,, hmmmmmm, hahahaha

 

 

The block I was referring to in this instance is the ej22 with a 2.35 kit and yes the machining work needs to be top notch

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21 minutes ago, Jay762 said:

The block I was referring to in this instance is the ej22 with a 2.35 kit and yes the machining work needs to be top notch

ah k, yeah different ball game and cost in that case. 2.35 is a tad ott for road imo, if you want 600/700 etc then best route to go, but just depends what you want from it.

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going slightly off topic but I was researching a US company that resleeves the standard 2.5 block and reckon their product / work significantly increases what the standard block will take power wise without going semi closed or full CDB conversion - I have a link somewhere I think... but was considering that as an option down the line also

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Ask the cost lol

Issue with the block is how thin the walls are, milling those out and putting new liners in that are alot thicker solves the wall issue problem. Down side is cost, its not cheap and there is a risk the liners. You cn also got the the extreme of a billet block as well, but iirc the last time i saw one was about 15k, for the block alone :o

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Scoobyclinic quoted me 10k for a closed deck block..............he keeps your car for 11 very long weeks..............with a large deposit first and booked well in advance, he told me this two weeks ago.

 

 

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yup, I would have to see the cost as a research investment as I would be shipping the block back and forth to the US or buying one from them directly - I have seen billet blocks.... soooooo shiny :wub:

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Scoobyclinic quoted me 10k for a closed deck block..............he keeps your car for 11 very long weeks..............with a large deposit first and booked well in advance, he told me this two weeks ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

10k lol alan Jeffries engine tuner , will do a full build with closed Dec insert for 6k and they are one of the most highly regarded Subaru engine builders out there . or look on the roger Clarke site they have loads of different options on the all nowhere near that outrageous price I would maybe expect to pay that much with turbo intercooler headers and all ancillaries for 600hp not just the engine build that's a tad extreme

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, Jay762 said:

going slightly off topic but I was researching a US company that resleeves the standard 2.5 block and reckon their product / work significantly increases what the standard block will take power wise without going semi closed or full CDB conversion - I have a link somewhere I think... but was considering that as an option down the line also

It's very common to resleeve instead of closing the deck in the States. I did it on a Honda engine (I know...) I built.

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Possibilities are endless really a good one is put the 2ltr crank in the 257 block then use a longer rod and it will be de stroke to about 2.3 and will rev its !Removed! off , but it all depends on budget . 600hp is achievable in many different ways dependant of fuel and budget if it's s road or race car , I would speak to Alan Jeffries engine tuner , they are probably one of the most experienced at that sort of thing and the do all their machining in house including closed deck inserts

 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Seminole81 said:

It's very common to resleeve instead of closing the deck in the States. I did it on a Honda engine (I know...) I built.

Ah didn't know that ok will follow that up then see if they are happy to ship international - mind you it will be probably cheaper for me to take a short California break with the blocks in my baggage :smile:

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3 minutes ago, Jay762 said:

Ah didn't know that ok will follow that up then see if they are happy to ship international - mind you it will be probably cheaper for me to take a short California break with the blocks in my baggage :smile:

Haha it depends. They charge by weight and size on large items like that. Think I had a quote from an airline for about £600 (so about £200 cheaper than container from house to house with a lorry with a lift gate) to bring it back with me when I was back and forth constantly. Not too bad, but it's getting it to and from the airports that's the hard part. Believe it or not, a lot of airlines sell off extra space in the hold for commercial cargo like that.

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Ask the cost lol

 

Issue with the block is how thin the walls are, milling those out and putting new liners in that are alot thicker solves the wall issue problem. Down side is cost, its not cheap and there is a risk the liners. You cn also got the the extreme of a billet block as well, but iirc the last time i saw one was about 15k, for the block alone :o

 

 

 

 

$10,000 for the billet block cases ready for 14mm head studs it's just getting it hear that the problem

 

 

 

Sent from my iphone using Tapatalk

 

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7 minutes ago, kershaw-330s said:

$10,000 for the billet block cases ready for 14mm head studs it's just getting it hear that the problem

Yup I would be on a plane :kicking:

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One day I will have it , may be a bit heavy for hand luggage tho haha e176c114de6202b29bd28fea14b4d1f9.jpg

53667a7b00fd15d46a1402655563516d.jpg201519aa4a15795a387fc9bb603105b4.jpg

 

So sexy https://www.iagperformance.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=IAG-ENG-1600 here a link if anyone's interested they will even send it in a hardens specialist flight box if you require 2e932cdac3d83ec12e73a79f42f3e59f.jpg

 

 

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ha ha yes I had seen this on the book of faces - had not seen the link though so thanks for that, now bookmarked :thumbup: 

Located Baltimore as well so lower flight time than Cali

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So thinking far into the future it would be a dream to get this car to reach 500 or 600 bhp so apart from millions of pound what does it take haha. My thinking was to have the engine built to take a ridiculous amount of power but then just keep it running around 300-350bhp and acquire what i need to get the full potential over the years. I need the engine rebuilt soon anyway and I'm just thinking while its out why not go all out when i know what i have planned for the future.

The car has done 110,000 miles now i have no proof off any previous owners of a rebuild in the past but i have had the cam belt checked and all is well. Its running 312bhp now being held back by dirty injectors and a 5 speed box which I've been told will go if its pushed much further.

Current specs:

440 yellow injectors , front mount intercooler , RCM fuel pump , K&N 9" cone filter , TDO5 Turbo , 3" straight pipe exhaust from the turbo back.

So just want peoples opinions of what it would takebiggrin.png

what Injectors?

what turbo?

what internals to go for?

can the car handle it?

Know anyone who has done it?

 

 

 

Back to topic you would probably need 1000cc injectors or maybe 850s , defo a closed deck block ,

But the thing is 600hp is a lot even the sti 6 speed is near its limit at 550lbft of torque , and like I said 600 hp can be achieved loads of different ways you could have two cars both with similar hp a one be much faster than the other

 

, what I would do is get you do is get your engine a closed deck 2.1 or if the for around 3k roger Clark sell reconditioned 2.35s or 2.1 Cdb . depends on budget and what would work out more cost effective , if you can get the engine out yourself mite be cheaper that way , the get one of those new precision standard fitment turbos they are the nuts and you don't have the expense of a rotated setup . Roger Clark are running that setup on their new hawk sprit car about 500-550hp, does have a sequential box but it's destroying the opposition in the MLr and 22b sprint series, you don't need anymore than that otherwise it become such a pain in the !Removed! on the road and potentially wouldn't be any faster .

 

 

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After reading through what people are saying it does sound like a unnecessary amount of power for a road car. What would you guys recommend is a good amount of power for a road set up. I will take it on the track now and again and i am planning a trip to the nurburgring its always going to be my daily driver.

I just think it would be a waste to have the engine taken out and built to standard i may aswell go for more power while its out. I know to achieve the power i would need bigger injectors and turbo but this could all be done in the future I'm just thinking build the engine first.

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I don't see an issue if you had yours built with a 2.5 crank to make it a 2.1 and then a closed deck insert maybe 14mm head stud conversion just to be sure that should future proof the bottom end , then oversized supertec valves should protect the heads for the extra power. I would've thought that should see you good

 

 

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